01
Sep
Alamo Heights limits drive-through structures
Alamo Heights City Council on Aug. 23 tackled a range of municipal business, including restricting buildings with drive-through sections, revising EMS fees and mulling where to locate a proposed community garden.
Community Development Director Brian Chandler said limiting drive-through facilities would promote a more pedestrian-friendly environment. (read more).
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written by Golden rule , September 15, 2010
written by Golden rule , September 15, 2010
Did anyone notice the drive through that George Geis owns at McDougall's drive through laundry and cleaners?
A real study in it's ok for me but not for you.
A real study in it's ok for me but not for you.
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written by Into GOOGLE , September 15, 2010
written by Into GOOGLE , September 15, 2010
I decided to GOOGLE walkability and start reading. Note the city staff never said walkable or walkability Mr. Chandler said "promote a more pedestrian-friendly environment" there is a bid difference. Since Mr. Joseph and hand full of commercial property owners/developers used the term I decided to GOOGLE. There is a lot info on this. Below is one that I found plus the web link.
What makes a neighborhood walkable?
A center: Walkable neighborhoods have a center, whether it's a main street or a public space.
People: Enough people for businesses to flourish and for public transit to run frequently.
Mixed income, mixed use: Affordable housing located near businesses.
Parks and public space: Plenty of public places to gather and play.
Pedestrian design: Buildings are close to the street, parking lots are relegated to the back.
Schools and workplaces: Close enough that most residents can walk from their homes.
Complete streets: Streets designed for bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit.
http://www.walkscore.com/walkable-neighborhoods.shtml
NO WHERE DOES IT MENTION "NO DRIVE THROUGHS" interesting
What makes a neighborhood walkable?
A center: Walkable neighborhoods have a center, whether it's a main street or a public space.
People: Enough people for businesses to flourish and for public transit to run frequently.
Mixed income, mixed use: Affordable housing located near businesses.
Parks and public space: Plenty of public places to gather and play.
Pedestrian design: Buildings are close to the street, parking lots are relegated to the back.
Schools and workplaces: Close enough that most residents can walk from their homes.
Complete streets: Streets designed for bicyclists, pedestrians, and transit.
http://www.walkscore.com/walkable-neighborhoods.shtml
NO WHERE DOES IT MENTION "NO DRIVE THROUGHS" interesting
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written by GW , September 15, 2010
written by GW , September 15, 2010
PL thanks for the tip you are right it is an eye opener WOW!
I am glad to see Dr. West attended the CC meeting Monday good for him!
Still waiting for anyone to respond to my previous post.
Can anyone tell me why the City Council did not take the Planning and Zoning recommendation re: Drive Thru's. My was the SUP section removed?
I am glad to see Dr. West attended the CC meeting Monday good for him!
Still waiting for anyone to respond to my previous post.
Can anyone tell me why the City Council did not take the Planning and Zoning recommendation re: Drive Thru's. My was the SUP section removed?
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written by PL , September 14, 2010
written by PL , September 14, 2010
GW
you should listen to the Video tapes of Aug. 9th, 23rd under the agenda item and then listen to Dr. West under Citizen's to be Heard from last night Sept. 13th. It is an eye opener.
you should listen to the Video tapes of Aug. 9th, 23rd under the agenda item and then listen to Dr. West under Citizen's to be Heard from last night Sept. 13th. It is an eye opener.
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written by GW , September 14, 2010
written by GW , September 14, 2010
Can anyone tell me why the City Council did not take the Planning and Zoning recommendation re: Drive Thru's. My was the SUP section removed?
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written by JAK44 , September 13, 2010
written by JAK44 , September 13, 2010
I hear the new Treehouse shopping center is going to be quite a gem. At least someone is willing to invest a little effort in the city instead of just waiting on appreciation to make their profits.
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written by Sally G , September 12, 2010
written by Sally G , September 12, 2010
Mr. DeWitt thank you. I understand your points. Thank you for taking time to explain.
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written by Matt D , September 10, 2010
written by Matt D , September 10, 2010
The best chance we have of a walkable community will be what Gottsman and Grable are going develop Austin Hwy. I can not wait for this great project.
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written by CT , September 10, 2010
written by CT , September 10, 2010
Peter
Good points. I agree this ordinance was more about fast food chains and banks than anything else. To be a walkable community it will take a whole lot more. This is not a magic wand - we will not become a walkable over night with this ordinance. There are many other needs that the business owners need to address to make that happen. Hopefully they will. It is not about cars as much as it is about the type business, the mix, the experience, the climate and the ease in which the person will have an enjoyable experience. It is about good coordinated planning and that has not happen within the business community for 30 years.
CT
Planner
Good points. I agree this ordinance was more about fast food chains and banks than anything else. To be a walkable community it will take a whole lot more. This is not a magic wand - we will not become a walkable over night with this ordinance. There are many other needs that the business owners need to address to make that happen. Hopefully they will. It is not about cars as much as it is about the type business, the mix, the experience, the climate and the ease in which the person will have an enjoyable experience. It is about good coordinated planning and that has not happen within the business community for 30 years.
CT
Planner
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written by Peter DeWitt , September 09, 2010
written by Peter DeWitt , September 09, 2010
Dear Sally G,
An underground parking structure is no different than a flat parking lot. The drive through definition is limited to the conducting of business from a building to an occupant in a vehicle. It doesn't apply to parking lots, parking garages, or any other vehicle related use. It is also not related the the I&R ordinance. In your example the underground parking structure would not be limited by this drive-through ordinance.
Best,
Pete
An underground parking structure is no different than a flat parking lot. The drive through definition is limited to the conducting of business from a building to an occupant in a vehicle. It doesn't apply to parking lots, parking garages, or any other vehicle related use. It is also not related the the I&R ordinance. In your example the underground parking structure would not be limited by this drive-through ordinance.
Best,
Pete
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written by Sallly G , September 09, 2010
written by Sallly G , September 09, 2010
Mr. Dewitt I am trying to understand this whole limiting IR thing. I have an example and would kindly appreciate your thoughts. If a piece of land in the commercial district was redeveloped -that would be property sold, building torn down and the developer is just starting with the land). They want redevelop the site, maybe mix use, 3 to 4 stories. A key element of the development would be an underground parking garage. Well wouldn't they need a drive through for the underground parking, which is for the entire mix use building???? What then?
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written by wfkiel , September 09, 2010
written by wfkiel , September 09, 2010
Very good points, Pete. I predict those that want to get around the new rules will find adequate loopholes to do so.
Bill
Bill
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written by Peter DeWitt , September 09, 2010
written by Peter DeWitt , September 09, 2010
I understand the limiting value of this ordinance but not for a "walkable city" concept. Let’s face it head on and call it what it is. This is an ordinance to keep out fast food chain restaurants and banks. An improvement to our walking environment has less to do with cars and more to do with limited parking for a strong density of good services, and a pleasant experience. Think river walk as an example. This ordinance does not limit lube stations, gas stations, brake repair, auto repair shops, auto dealer or many other auto related businesses. I don’t disagree with this attempt to limit these businesses but I think we need to go further to improve or walking/biking experience across the city.
As to my comment during the city council meeting, I was attempting to point out that the zoning definition for a drive through business is important. This ordinance defines drive-through as a business conducted from a building to an occupant in a car without the business employee stepping outside. This leaves open the possibility of a bank or restaurant having a final transaction or delivery happening just outside a door at the drive through. During the council meeting Sonic was mentioned as an example of delivery outside to a car as being acceptable under this ordinance. Just like the I&R ordinance, the fine print is really important to the long term application and strength of an ordinance.
Pete
As to my comment during the city council meeting, I was attempting to point out that the zoning definition for a drive through business is important. This ordinance defines drive-through as a business conducted from a building to an occupant in a car without the business employee stepping outside. This leaves open the possibility of a bank or restaurant having a final transaction or delivery happening just outside a door at the drive through. During the council meeting Sonic was mentioned as an example of delivery outside to a car as being acceptable under this ordinance. Just like the I&R ordinance, the fine print is really important to the long term application and strength of an ordinance.
Pete
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written by Patriot , September 08, 2010
written by Patriot , September 08, 2010
Well, I did do a drive around. Interesting how some folks that were pushing this already have drive through structures.
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written by Sarah , September 03, 2010
written by Sarah , September 03, 2010
Banks, Bill Millers, McDonalds? I have to go to my bank today, I'll cruise down the Drag and see. By the way I did look at the entire stretch on Monday, and other than a few dead bushes, maybe three tacky storefronts, six empty buildings, and a mish-mash of architecture and parking arrangements, I'm not sure a photo survey would help.
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written by Sally G , September 03, 2010
written by Sally G , September 03, 2010
Does anyone know how many drive thru structures we have in AH? And where they are all located? It does seem like we have very many?
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written by M Whitley , September 02, 2010
written by M Whitley , September 02, 2010
LOL Bud good one you are correct. I hope I did hurt JAK's feelings, he seems pretty tough. He does get us to thinking.
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written by BUD , September 02, 2010
written by BUD , September 02, 2010
WHitley every clock is right twice a day - and sometimes so is JAK!
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written by MWhitley , September 02, 2010
written by MWhitley , September 02, 2010
I agree with PL. Mr. Kiel once again, good information, thanks for sharing and good post. I have to admit, I think JAK44 has some good points. I never thought I would be agreeing with JAK44.
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written by TJW , September 02, 2010
written by TJW , September 02, 2010
Bud, Once elected and sworn in, the elected officials are supposed to represent all of the citizens and not just a handful. This was how it was before. Great leadership leads it is not led. Great leadership is service to the whole community and doing what is best for the greater good. This is what separates a Public Servant from a Politician. I will take the Public Servant every day of the week. Bud my Dude, I know you know this, I just had to get it off my chest. I hate to see Politicians come to AH.
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written by BUD , September 02, 2010
written by BUD , September 02, 2010
GBC - what are your chances? NADA unless you know one of the new councilmen.
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written by BUD , September 02, 2010
written by BUD , September 02, 2010
Nobody cares what their liquor store looks like. It's in and out for me.
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written by JAK44 , September 02, 2010
written by JAK44 , September 02, 2010
Just a reminder to all who posted here - 91% of the taxes paid in AH are paid by the HOMEOWNERS - not the commercial sector.
Also notice that all the noise about how hard it is for businesses comes from South Broadway? I haven't heard the Austin Highway or North Broadway businesses griping.
Of course, Austin Highway looks like they are better maintained overall. North Broadway appears to have decent business even without investing in the looks of their buildings because they offer the services people want(Think laundromat and booze!!.
Ask yourself - Why did we elect a group of men whose sole focus was the commercial sector?
Also notice that all the noise about how hard it is for businesses comes from South Broadway? I haven't heard the Austin Highway or North Broadway businesses griping.
Of course, Austin Highway looks like they are better maintained overall. North Broadway appears to have decent business even without investing in the looks of their buildings because they offer the services people want(Think laundromat and booze!!.
Ask yourself - Why did we elect a group of men whose sole focus was the commercial sector?
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written by GBC , September 02, 2010
written by GBC , September 02, 2010
Before the City gives any money to these Business owners, I hope they pave Tuxedo and put a sidewalk on Claywell. What are my chances? ZIP.
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written by TJW , September 02, 2010
written by TJW , September 02, 2010
While his property went down 9% my property went up 17%!!!! Wonder if I could get the city to come over and put in a sidewalk, plant just two little trees, replant my wife's flower bed and throw in a bench.
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written by Maxwell312 , September 02, 2010
written by Maxwell312 , September 02, 2010
Well Jack the new councilmen ran on helping the businesses out. They had to make good at some point.
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written by JAK44 , September 02, 2010
written by JAK44 , September 02, 2010
I'm sure that George was only looking out for the good of the city - NOT! He didn't care about the walk ability on Austin Highway. He just wanted to hamstring the business property on that stretch of road.
The word common does come to mind when you look at much of the commercial property south of Austin Highway. But the fault for that "look" rests with the property owners not the city.
A good example is Central Market - whose landscaping and color scheme makes them a good community partner. Contrast that with the tacky green building owned by another out of towner that looks like it hasn't had a paint job in the last decade and has zero landscaping. Even the bread company opted for getting out.
This one George may have called right - it is common and completely uninviting.
Now that we see Mr. Kiel's numbers, most of us should be even less enthusiastic about "special favors" for South Broadway.
The word common does come to mind when you look at much of the commercial property south of Austin Highway. But the fault for that "look" rests with the property owners not the city.
A good example is Central Market - whose landscaping and color scheme makes them a good community partner. Contrast that with the tacky green building owned by another out of towner that looks like it hasn't had a paint job in the last decade and has zero landscaping. Even the bread company opted for getting out.
This one George may have called right - it is common and completely uninviting.
Now that we see Mr. Kiel's numbers, most of us should be even less enthusiastic about "special favors" for South Broadway.
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written by wfkiel , September 02, 2010
written by wfkiel , September 02, 2010
Sorry, I keep forgetting that tables of numbers get bunched together. Hopefully this will be more readable.
4901 Broadway Bexar County Appraisal District Taxable Property Values.
Year.............Improvements.......Land..........Total Appraisal.........AH City Tax
2006..............$1,349,380.....$1,059,770.........$2,409,150..............$7,833
2010.................$663,570.....$1,525,430.........$2,189,000..............$7,785
4901 Broadway Bexar County Appraisal District Taxable Property Values.
Year.............Improvements.......Land..........Total Appraisal.........AH City Tax
2006..............$1,349,380.....$1,059,770.........$2,409,150..............$7,833
2010.................$663,570.....$1,525,430.........$2,189,000..............$7,785
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written by wfkiel , September 02, 2010
written by wfkiel , September 02, 2010
Now that it appears Mr. Geis is chastising the City for the decline of the commercial sector, its time for a few facts. Let's take 4901 Broadway, which Mr. Geis owns, and see how property values have changed over the last five years. This data comes from the Bexar County Appraisal District.
Improvements Land Total Appraisal AH City Tax
2006 1,349,380 1,059,770 2,409,150 7,833
2010 663,570 1,525,430 2,189,000 7,785
2006-2010 Improvement value is down 50.8%
Land value is up 43.9%
Total value is down 9.1%.
The average appraisal value for most AH properties during this time period increased approximately 30%. But Mr. Geis's property, one of the largest commercial properties in the City, has decline nearly 10% !
How can this happen? Could it be a lack of investment?
In my opinion, the decline Mr. Geis Laments is due to the lack of investment of a few downtown property owners to improve their establishments during better times and their failure to compete with other shopping venues. They complained alot but failed to do anything about it, and now want the City of Alamo Heights to bail them out. I recently heard one property owner complain about the loss of tenants, and those remaining are demanding lower rents. The owner was chagrined that improvements might have to be made to hold onto tenants. This is not a walkability issue but rather one of declining shopping facilities with high rents that tenants won't pay any more.
Mr. Geis claims that the sales tax could increase by a factor of four if our City were more walkable. I would like to see his business analysis to back this up. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.
My advice to taxpayers - hold onto your wallets, folks.
Improvements Land Total Appraisal AH City Tax
2006 1,349,380 1,059,770 2,409,150 7,833
2010 663,570 1,525,430 2,189,000 7,785
2006-2010 Improvement value is down 50.8%
Land value is up 43.9%
Total value is down 9.1%.
The average appraisal value for most AH properties during this time period increased approximately 30%. But Mr. Geis's property, one of the largest commercial properties in the City, has decline nearly 10% !
How can this happen? Could it be a lack of investment?
In my opinion, the decline Mr. Geis Laments is due to the lack of investment of a few downtown property owners to improve their establishments during better times and their failure to compete with other shopping venues. They complained alot but failed to do anything about it, and now want the City of Alamo Heights to bail them out. I recently heard one property owner complain about the loss of tenants, and those remaining are demanding lower rents. The owner was chagrined that improvements might have to be made to hold onto tenants. This is not a walkability issue but rather one of declining shopping facilities with high rents that tenants won't pay any more.
Mr. Geis claims that the sales tax could increase by a factor of four if our City were more walkable. I would like to see his business analysis to back this up. I'll show him mine if he shows me his.
My advice to taxpayers - hold onto your wallets, folks.
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written by RJ Thomas , September 02, 2010
written by RJ Thomas , September 02, 2010
I have taken the liberty of reposting Mrs..Helen K's statement. It is on point. Her comment to Mr. Kiel and Mr. Kiel's Opinion piece demonstrates a certain attitude, maybe that is why the commercial area has become so "common" as Mr. Geis referred it.
She also makes very good points regarding Sunset Ridge. Although I never thought about it, it so true. We shop Sunset Ridge all the time for all her reasons stated. Although it is in SA, many 09ers will tell you Sunset Ridge is AH. It is the "hang out" for young and old.
..
written by Helen K , September 01, 2010
Mr. Kiel great commentary. It is surprising that people think so small, it is silly and embarrassing. You are so right, we are part of a greater community and we need to think, act and behave accordingly. I miss you on Council!
RJ Thomas. I really enjoyed your post, well said! I look at Sunset Ridge shopping Center, it is plain vanilla architecturally but it is inviting, has a variety of and unique shops and is easily accessible. It is well maintain, landscaped and lots of parking. You can walk from one end to the other in the shade. Two good restaurants. Eat and shop - Something for everyone. It works and is successful. We should be able to do the same. You are right, Pearl, La Cantera and the Quarry is something we can learn from, even Olmos Park.
She also makes very good points regarding Sunset Ridge. Although I never thought about it, it so true. We shop Sunset Ridge all the time for all her reasons stated. Although it is in SA, many 09ers will tell you Sunset Ridge is AH. It is the "hang out" for young and old.
..
written by Helen K , September 01, 2010
Mr. Kiel great commentary. It is surprising that people think so small, it is silly and embarrassing. You are so right, we are part of a greater community and we need to think, act and behave accordingly. I miss you on Council!
RJ Thomas. I really enjoyed your post, well said! I look at Sunset Ridge shopping Center, it is plain vanilla architecturally but it is inviting, has a variety of and unique shops and is easily accessible. It is well maintain, landscaped and lots of parking. You can walk from one end to the other in the shade. Two good restaurants. Eat and shop - Something for everyone. It works and is successful. We should be able to do the same. You are right, Pearl, La Cantera and the Quarry is something we can learn from, even Olmos Park.
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written by RJ Thomas , September 01, 2010
written by RJ Thomas , September 01, 2010
Although, I posted the statement below on another loop, I thought I would repost it here. I think the Commercial Property owners should look to themselves first, instead of looking to government first.
written by RJ Thomas , August 29, 2010
Streets and streetscape is a defining characteristic of any City. Your streets and streetscape speak volumes of what type of city you are. It is all all about appearance and making that first good impression. Look at the improvements that have been made in Southtown and Houston Street in San Antonio - or what the City of Shertz has done to their main boulevards in recent years. There is a stark difference. They are clean, and have neatly manicure landscaping and trees, well designed signage - bottom line you can see all the business in these areas and they are inviting and pleasant. The appearance of the streetscape is defined by the pride of both the city and the business owners. Broadway South although nice, has a lot of clutter, poorly maintain landscaping and trees that are over grown (look trashy) and they block the view of businesses. Trees if properly trimmed and can still maintain their canopy thus their shade. Also some of the planters on Broadway act as a barrier, instead of an invitation to "please come in" - they scream "stop".
The businesses have not been improved in many years and don't have an attractive appeal - compared competitively to Pearl or La Canterra - or perhaps even the Quarry. The business district has to be competitive with these other venues. Just because they are in Alamo Heights does not insure their success - even with Alamo Heights residents. Look at the very successful business that at one time were located in Alamo Heights - but have moved to more successful locations - Bric Brac Brass, the Twig and Morretti's Jewelry. There is no strategic retail planning relative to larger tenants, quality of shopping experience, attractive variety of tenants, etc. The reality is - Alamo Heights is not an island when it comes to retail businesses - they have to compete on "San Antonio" - wide basis. Statistics will show that there are not enough roof-tops in Alamo Heights alone to support these businesses.
The business can't look to our Alamo Heights City Government to guarantee their success - it is their responsibility to have a strong regional marketing plan to be competitive on a San Antonio-wide basis. Look what Pearl has done in a very short time.
I shop at Hanley-Woods, eat at Paloma Blanca and just bought paint at Sherwin Williams - all because they are inviting and are unique and easily accessible.
written by RJ Thomas , August 29, 2010
Streets and streetscape is a defining characteristic of any City. Your streets and streetscape speak volumes of what type of city you are. It is all all about appearance and making that first good impression. Look at the improvements that have been made in Southtown and Houston Street in San Antonio - or what the City of Shertz has done to their main boulevards in recent years. There is a stark difference. They are clean, and have neatly manicure landscaping and trees, well designed signage - bottom line you can see all the business in these areas and they are inviting and pleasant. The appearance of the streetscape is defined by the pride of both the city and the business owners. Broadway South although nice, has a lot of clutter, poorly maintain landscaping and trees that are over grown (look trashy) and they block the view of businesses. Trees if properly trimmed and can still maintain their canopy thus their shade. Also some of the planters on Broadway act as a barrier, instead of an invitation to "please come in" - they scream "stop".
The businesses have not been improved in many years and don't have an attractive appeal - compared competitively to Pearl or La Canterra - or perhaps even the Quarry. The business district has to be competitive with these other venues. Just because they are in Alamo Heights does not insure their success - even with Alamo Heights residents. Look at the very successful business that at one time were located in Alamo Heights - but have moved to more successful locations - Bric Brac Brass, the Twig and Morretti's Jewelry. There is no strategic retail planning relative to larger tenants, quality of shopping experience, attractive variety of tenants, etc. The reality is - Alamo Heights is not an island when it comes to retail businesses - they have to compete on "San Antonio" - wide basis. Statistics will show that there are not enough roof-tops in Alamo Heights alone to support these businesses.
The business can't look to our Alamo Heights City Government to guarantee their success - it is their responsibility to have a strong regional marketing plan to be competitive on a San Antonio-wide basis. Look what Pearl has done in a very short time.
I shop at Hanley-Woods, eat at Paloma Blanca and just bought paint at Sherwin Williams - all because they are inviting and are unique and easily accessible.
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written by PL , September 01, 2010
written by PL , September 01, 2010
"Let's get serious about what we want Alamo Heights to be" I hope WE means the people not a select few. Not a survey for just the business community. If you are serious then WE need to do workshops that includes the AH residents, this is our town and our taxes! Decisions should not be made by out -of- towners, in a vaccum nor should they be exclusive.
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